This interview has been divided into two parts for editorial reasons.
The video of the first part is availablehere,and that of the second part here.
The text of the interview is also published on Kokx News.

– 1 –

Stephen Kokx — Your Excellency, we have read your “hot take” (here) on the results of the extraordinary Consistory, and I believe it can be said that – once again – you have hit the nail on the head: “This Consistory confirms the continuity between Bergoglio and Prevost on all the controversial points of the synodal agenda and on the irrevocability of the Council.” What scenario do you believe awaits us, as Catholics, after Leo’s recent statements on the “dynamic development” of Doctrine and Morality?

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò — When we hear talk of “dynamic development,” we cannot help but think of the condemnation of the heterodox doctrine of the so-called “evolution of dogma,” according to which the Church supposedly has a better and different understanding of Revelation with the passage of time and thanks to the scientific progress of theological disciplines. This is a true pseudo-scientific fraud, based on evolutionism and philosophical historicism, propagated by modernists since the time of Alfred Loisy, through which they try to make the Christian people believe that their adulterations of Faith and Morality should be considered as just another way of expressing the same concept which for two thousand years the Magisterium supposedly was not previously able to correctly articulate. The Catholic Church would therefore have taught doctrines that over the centuries were passively accepted by a submissive and ignorant people, and which were then set aside only by Vatican II and its liturgical reform. Obviously, the doctrines that the Council obscured or reformulated are those that condemn its own deviations, not the least of which is “synodality.” Modernists consider dogmas as historically contingent expressions of religious experience that evolve and adapt to circumstances. The “situational morality” of Amoris Lætitia and Fiducia Supplicans is a practical application of this heretical evolutionary approach with devastating effects, just as the conciliar liturgy is also constantly evolving. It is evident that all this corresponds to an anthropocentric theological approach and an immanentist philosophy.

The one who presently sits on the Throne of Peter claims that the non-Catholic sects supposedly constitute that phantomatic “church” that Lumen Gentium sees as existing also, but not exclusively, in the Catholic Church, echoing Bergoglio, who declared that all religions are paths to salvation willed by God. 

But if all religions are willed by God, if truth is “multifaceted” and expresses itself in different and multiple ways in all Christian denominations and even in pagan religions and idolatrous superstitions, then why – I ask – is the only religion considered unacceptable and reprehensible in this ecumenical and inclusive pantheon the traditional Catholic religion? The answer is simultaneously simple and terrible: because the Catholic Faith is the only true religion, the only religion against which Satan unleashes all the other false religions that he inspires and favors. It is the only religion that Satan fears, because it reveals and combats his infernal machinations. Astiterunt reges terræ, et principes convenerunt in unum, adversus Dominum, et adversus Christum ejus (Ps 2:2). The kings of the earth have risen up, and the princes have gathered together against the Lord and against his Christ. The ecumenical and Masonic unity of Vatican II is founded on this pactum sceleris, this pact of wickedness between false religions, united together against the One True Religion. Reversing the words of Saint Paul, Veritatem facientes in caritate – Doing the truth in charity – (Eph 4:15), in the minds of the proponents of synodality, unity cannot and must not be based on Truth: because it is precisely Truth that makes their false unity impossible, and even more so, Charity towards God and towards one’s neighbor.

The scenario unfolding – or rather, that is already before our eyes – is deeply disturbing, but from an eschatological perspective it is in accord with the apostasy foretold in Sacred Scripture by the Prophet Daniel and the Book of Revelation, and presumably reiterated in the third part of the message of the Virgin Mary at Fatima and in Her words at La Salette: “Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.” The apostasy of the Hierarchy of the Catholic Church is part of that crisis of earthly authority that comes about as a necessary consequence of the rejection of the Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ. This authority demands obedience in the name of the Head of the Mystical Body, while separating itself from Him through heresy and corruption. The Hierarchy will not be able to heal the wound for which it is responsible until it is converted. Until that conversion happens, it can only be a tyrannical and self-referential authority, devoid of any legitimacy, because it exercises its power abusively, for the opposite purpose for which Our Lord instituted it.

– 2 –

SK — In many of your statements since 2020 you have highlighted the parallels between the modus operandi of the “deep church” and that of the “deep state.” The latest revelations regarding the Epstein dossier documents – now declassified and largely made public – show that corruption and blackmail were the main tools used to obtain obedience and cooperation from individuals in top positions within institutions. But what is most shocking is the level of horrors perpetrated against children and innocent victims. What motivates these people?

CMV — We cannot fail to see in the torture of children the same anti-Christian hatred that led to the martyrdom of William of Norwich (1144), Hugh of Lincoln (1255), William of Oberwesel (1287), Rudolph of Bern (1294), Andrew Oxner (1462), Simon of Trent (1475), Sebastian Novello (1480), Lorenzino Sossio (1485), Domenico del Val, and Christopher della Guardia: all Gentile (goyim) children between the ages of 3 and 15 who were tortured and killed by the same Synagogue of Satan that today governs the world. All were tortured for the same reason: in order to kill once again, in the flesh of innocent children, the Immaculate Lamb who gave His life for our Redemption. The difference between these ritual murders and those that emerge from the declassified documents is that back then they may have appeared sporadic because they were committed by a small sect rightly marginalized by a fiercely Catholic society; while today – aided by the complicit silence of the mainstream media and the scandalous inertia of the magistrates – they are committed on a vast scale by the same sect that has managed to seize power after de-Christianizing society and establishing the Revolution. A Revolution that the Council has embraced, progressively converting members of the Hierarchy to Masonic principles and often choosing episcopal candidates from among the emissaries of the Lodges.

This is the matrix of the infernal sect that the Epstein documents confirm in their most horrifying details. On the other hand, if the proponents of Vatican II have gone so far as to deny the responsibility of the Jews for the Crucifixion of Our Lord, it is not surprising that they are so zealous in erasing the memory of those holy child martyrs, even questioning the historical reality of their killing during ritual sacrifices.

The post-conciliar Hierarchy has become complicit in a satanic plan, without understanding its terrifying implications. But despite the evidence of this global coup, it continues stubbornly to support and ratify the globalist agenda, the vaccine farce, the “green deal” fraud, the insane gender theory, the LGBTQ+ ideology, and the ethnic replacement of Catholic nations, even though they are all part of the same criminal and subversive project that we now know has been carefully planned and coordinated.

But in order for this coup to take place, it was necessary to replicate within the ecclesiastical sphere what the “sons” of the families of high-finance usurers have done by infiltrating governments with the Young Global Leaders program of the World Economic Forum, with the documented cooperation of Epstein himself and well-known Ashkenazi “philanthropists.” For this reason, the fifth columns at the top of the conciliar Hierarchy have created a “dynastic line” – so to speak – that ensures a “lineage” and therefore an ideological and organizational continuity within the central and peripheral bodies of the Church. Theodore McCarrick placed his protégés Cupich, Tobin, Gregory, Farrell, McElroy – to name just a few – in top positions in the Episcopal Conferences and the Roman Curia. Today, these individuals act in the same way, placing their own favorites in positions that perpetuate the power of this lobby.

– 3 –

SK — What can we do, as Catholics and as members of our community, to confront this situation of complete reversal of every basic moral and ethical principle? 

CMV — Humanly speaking, the conflict that is unfolding appears decidedly unequal. On one side is the pusillus grex, composed of those who uphold Sacred Tradition. This group has been practically left without shepherds, abandoned and ostracized by the mercenaries and false shepherds of the synodal church, and is also disorganized and fragmented. On the other side is the entire world, with its powerful organizational, financial, and institutional resources, of which that “church” that proclaims itself inclusive of everyone except Catholics is a zealous ally. It is a world that is moving towards proscribing Christians from civil society, criminalizing membership in the Catholic Church, and considering traditionalists as non-persons. The contribution of the synodal church to this operation of persecution lies both in its cooperation with the globalist agenda and in the excommunication of those who, like me, have denounced – and continue to denounce – the corruption of the Prelates and those who have given them protection and impunity.

Here I would like to draw attention to a significant element of the mental manipulation process being carried out on the masses. A few days ago, speaking at the annual World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, we heard the President of the Conference of European Rabbis, Pinchas Goldschmidt, refer to the citizens of the nations of our continent as “old Europeans,” defining them as anti-Semitic and Islamophobic simply because they are unwilling to resign themselves to an irreversible ethnic replacement. In doing so, the globalist elite creates the ideological foundations – as already happened during the psychopandemic with the marginalization of “anti-vaxxers” – for delegitimizing any voice that opposes the dictatorship of the prescribed way of thinking. This delegitimization also entails an implicit deprivation of rights, giving the green light to the ostracism, persecution, and criminalization of anyone who dissents. The elite denies citizenship to those who are entitled to it and grants it instead to foreigners, to whom they fraudulently even grant the right to vote. The “old Europeans” belong to “old Europe,” an entity distinct from the “new Europe,” which is inclusive, multicultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, and globalist, following the agenda of the New World Order. On one side we have the Christian Europe of sovereign nations, on the other a Europe that is Masonic, Talmudic and synarchic.

Something similar – disturbingly similar – has also happened within the ecclesial body, which is no less infiltrated by fifth columns than the civil sphere. In this case, we do not have “old Europeans” but rather “old Catholics” – that is, those faithful who still stubbornly consider themselves members of the Church of Christ, and who refuse to accept the admission of those who consciously reject Her Faith, Morality, and Liturgy. The obsessive pro-immigration propaganda of Bergoglio and Prevost, Cardinals and Bishops in support of the ethnic replacement being carried out by globalist governments is not limited to the civil sphere: it finds its ecclesial counterpart in ecumenical propaganda. Their “open borders” policy began with Vatican II, which threw open the doors of the Citadel and lowered its drawbridges precisely at the moment when the most violent assault by the enemy was being prepared. The religious replacement being carried out by the conciliar-synodal Hierarchy is no less deliberate than the ethnic one. It manifests itself in the same modus operandi: forcing true Catholics into exile while granting full Church citizenship to heretics and perverts. Those who do not ratify the Novus Ordo – in all its aspects – reveal themselves as “old Catholics” who belong to the “old Church” with its “old Mass,” and in doing so, they exclude themselves, they excommunicate themselves from the “new church.” On one side we have the Catholic Church, on the other the conciliar, synodal, ecumenical “church” that has successfully seized power and has no intention of relinquishing it.

– 4 –

SK — In your opinion, why is the Church today so attentive to ecumenical dialogue with non-Catholics and at the same time so intolerant and severe towards traditional realities? Why is it so rigid towards you, but so inclusive with heretics and schismatics, and even with Islam and Judaism?

CMV — The hierarchy of the conciliar church – and above all those who have seized control of the Vatican, usurping the See of Peter – no longer speaks with the authoritative voice of Truth, but with the timid voice of “dialogue” and compromise with the world. This has been the case since the Second Vatican Council, which marks a point of rupture and discontinuity with respect to the perennial Roman Catholic Apostolic Church. 

The reason why the conciliar church recognizes other Christian churches and sects is that it no longer considers itself as the sole custodian of Revealed Truth. For this reason, it places itself on the same level as other faiths with countless ecumenical (ad intra, within Christianity) and inter-religious (ad extra, outside Christianity) meetings. The Papacy emerges disfigured, and the Bishop of Rome is reduced to a mere primus inter pares, according to the reinterpretation “in a synodal and ecumenical key” recommended by the study document “The Bishop of Rome: Primacy and Synodality in Ecumenical Dialogues and in Responses to the Encyclical Ut Unum Sint.” These are the practical effects of the phrase “subsistit in” found in Lumen Gentium.

Eastern Orthodox schismatics, Protestant heretics, pagan idolaters, and the conciliar-synodal church are all united by their heterogeneity with respect to the Catholic Church; and it is precisely from the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church that all of them disdainfully distance themselves. 

Let us not forget that even among the Eastern Orthodox there are communities that have introduced the diaconate for women, embracing the demands of gender equality to which the conciliar church has long been adapting with increasingly daring innovations. Protestants and Anglicans share with the conciliar-synodal church – which rejects, reinterprets, or erases Catholic Truths – ecclesiological and doctrinal errors and heresies, and together they ecumenically pursue a false unity at the price of apostasy from the Faith.

The farce of the administrative sentence imposed by the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith has inflicted excommunication upon me, declaring me to be in a state of schism with the Bergoglian church for daring to question its two untouchable idols: Vatican II and the legitimacy of Jorge Mario Bergoglio as Pope. This, of course, does not make me a schismatic with respect to the Catholic Church, but rather with respect to the conciliar-synodal church, thus demonstrating that it is itself in de facto schism from the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church, no more and no less than the Eastern Orthodox or the Protestants.

– 5 –

SK — In the last few days, the Society of Saint Pius X has announced that it will consecrate new bishops on July 1^st without the Vatican’s approval. How do you evaluate this decision, Your Excellency?

CMV — I greatly appreciate the decision to ensure Apostolic Succession in order to guarantee continuity for the Society and preserve the treasure of Tradition, the Catholic Priesthood, and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. However, I believe that the Society of Saint Pius X still needs to face the final stage of the process of awareness that thirty-eight years ago led its Founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, to consider “modernist Rome apostate.” It is true that the state of necessity invoked to legitimize the episcopal consecrations is justified by the salvation of souls – salus animarum suprema lex. This authorizes the Society to proceed with the Consecration of new Bishops even in the absence of a Pontifical Mandate, which a Pope faithful to the Petrine Mandate would certainly grant. Nevertheless, it should be noted that in the extremely unlikely event that Leo were to consent to these Consecrations, the Society would find itself in a paradoxical situation, with two Bishops “in an irregular canonical situation” and the new ones “in communion with Rome.” This would generate a schism within the Society itself. Canonically, there seems to be no way out, and this is because the problem is of a theological and ecclesiological nature. And it is the Superior General himself, Father Davide Pagliarani, who acknowledges this very serious anomaly, objectively impossible to remedy at a time when the conditions for Rome’s return to Tradition are far more unrealistic than in the time of Archbishop Lefebvre. The desire of the Society of Saint Pius X to concretely manifest its union with the Apostolic See, cum Petro et sub Petro, is certainly understandable, but the objective gap cannot be bridged through administrative means, because they are dealing with officials who no longer profess the Catholic Faith and who aim to demolish the Holy Church.

I hope that the reason the Superior General is insisting on having a dialogue with Rome is not primarily to achieve canonical regularization, but rather to “corner them” – so to speak – so that, on the one hand, the willingness of the members of the FSSPX to recognize themselves as children of the Catholic Church and subjects of the Roman Pontiff is evident; and on the other hand, to “put on record” the unwillingness of the current Hierarchy to reconsider Vatican II and its very serious deviations, showing it for what it is, namely subversive and heretical.

The paradox of the Roman veto appears in all its shocking contradiction when we consider that the Holy See continues to give post facto ratification to the episcopal ordinations of the Chinese Patriotic Church, which is notoriously schismatic and has its own parallel hierarchy hostile to Rome. Let us not forget that the penalty of excommunication for episcopal Consecrations conferred without an Apostolic Mandate was introduced by Pius XII in 1958 precisely to sanction the state of schism of the Patriotic Association. The secret Sino-Vatican agreement stipulated by Bergoglio and Parolin contradicts the position that the Holy See had maintained until Benedict XVI and aligns the schismatic Chinese church with other non-Catholic sects with which the synodal church engages in friendly dialogue, without this posing any apparent problem.

We must acknowledge that the current crisis, precisely because of its absolute exceptionality and gravity, demands to be addressed, as they say, “outside the box.” Canonical responses are valid for times of relative normalcy, not for extraordinary, almost eschatological situations. The drift to which the conciliar-synodal church has arrived is such that the same people simultaneously appear to hold both the sacred authority of the Church and the subversive power of its counterfeit. But it is not possible to preside over the Catholic Church in orthodoxy and at the same time over the synodal church in heresy, just as it is not possible to serve two masters (Mt 6:24).

– 6 –

SK — Do you consider the prospect of a “pax liturgica” which has been put forward by certain ecclesial circles, to be well-founded and worthy of support?

CMV — The pax liturgica hoped for by some prelates and Catholic intellectuals is, in my opinion, a very dangerous deception, into which its proponents have fallen first, and into which those who follow them will also fall. The concept of a peaceful coexistence of two forms of the same Rite is impossible, and it is the result of a de-dogmatization of the Liturgy, which corresponds to a de-liturgization of Doctrine. The Tridentine Mass is the praying voice of the Catholic Faith, according to the adage Lex orandi lex credendi (the law of prayer is the law of belief). The Novus Ordo is an ideological expression of the errors of the Council, containing very clear, blatant omissions and manipulations intended to adulterate the Catholic Faith and progressively lead the faithful towards a Universal Religion. The faithful who attend both rites may perhaps consider the celebrations in the ancient rite more beautiful and solemn, but they will remain convinced that it is possible to make two opposing worlds coexist simply by granting freedom to both. This contradicts the principle of non-contradiction even before contradicting the Catholic Magisterium. As bishop Marian Eleganti has rightly observed, “A dirty schism is tolerated that runs through the entire Catholic Church between the so-called “modernist,” “zeitgeist-adapted,” “relativist,” and “pluralist,” “left-wing” “reform Catholics” and the “conservative,” “right-wing,” “traditional,” and “orthodox” Catholics. Both wings see themselves as faithful and Catholic. This is the paradox par excellence.” 

Chris Jackson comments: “This scandalous double standard demonstrates that the conciliar church values conformity to its new humanistic creed more than fidelity to the truth of Christ.” Unfortunately, among conservatives there is the completely erroneous and unfounded belief that it was not Vatican II, but a misinterpretation of it, that caused the crisis; that it was not the Novus Ordo Missæ, but abuses in its celebration, that caused the collapse of religious practice.

– 7 –

SK — What can priests and the faithful do to resist this crisis of civil and religious authority? 

CMV — It is a foolish illusion to think that it would somehow be possible to fundamentally reform the institutions of the entire Western world, which are now in the hands of the Synagogue of Satan. Our civilization has reached the terminal stage of a cancer that is eating away at it from within: the rebellion against God inspired and perpetrated by the prince of this world and his servants.

I believe the time has come to seriously consider the formation of “intentional communities” based on Rod Dreher’s Benedict Option model. “In the devastation and desolation following the fall of the Roman Empire, in a hostile world, Benedictine monks formed small communities to preserve what matters of the Christian faith and to sow the seeds of tomorrow’s civilization. According to Dreher, our situation is the same or will soon become so.” What is stopping Catholics from revitalizing the many abandoned or depopulated villages, combining their skills and resources to live together according to a Christian way of life, and providing themselves with the means of independence and self-sufficiency, including economic and food independence, that would prevent or at least minimize contamination from a hostile world? A French priest writes: “During the Covid period, I celebrated clandestine Masses in barns. It seemed like we were back in the times of the Revolution. Today, power is no longer at the service of the people or of God, but at the service of globalism. It is the struggle between Christ the King and the prince of this world, the devil. It is the duty of every man to side with good and resist evil.” What is stopping priests from helping the faithful in this fight against globalism, as some have already begun to do?

Catholics must reclaim their destiny, freeing themselves from the invasive and deadly dictatorship of the elite and the overwhelming power of a usurped authority. Moreover, if we find ourselves in an ecclesial state of necessity, we are also in a similar state in the civil sphere. Such a reclamation is only possible, however, when every soul lives in and by Grace. And to achieve this, the sanctifying action of the Sacraments and the Holy Mass, administered by priests faithful to Tradition, is indispensable. This will be the supernatural nourishment that will give us the strength to wield spiritual weapons in the battle that is already raging and that foreshadows the persecution of the Antichrist. For only those who live in Christ can fight the present evil and thus merit eternal reward. Mihi enim vivere Christus est, et mori lucrum. For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. (Phil 1:21).

9 Febbraio 2026

FOOTNOTES

1 – It is significant that it is precisely the globalists who are the first to be aware of the “threat” posed by the Catholic Church. No less than Jeffrey Epstein himself admitted this. Cf. https://x.com/stanislasberton/status/2018969611526443512 

2 – This is only a partial list of known cases of ritual sacrifices reported in chronicles and notarial or judicial documents between the 12th and 20th centuries. Cf. https://x.com/timayenis/status/1846279581684453666 

3 – Cf. https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2013910057965047894

4 – Cf. https://www.christianunity.va/content/unitacristiani/en/documenti/altri-testi/the-bishop-of-rome.html

5 – Cf. https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/bishop-eleganti-the-church-is-suffering-internal-schism-because-pope-bishops-tolerate-heresies/ 

6 – Cf. https://x.com/bigmodernism/status/2018558959599116464

7 – Intentional communities are groups of people who voluntarily choose to live together (or very close to each other) to realize a common vision, a shared ideal, or a particular lifestyle. They are not simply neighbors or random roommates: the central element is intentionality, that is, a conscious and shared decision to cooperate and share resources, responsibilities, and moral principles.

8 – Cf. https://lanuovabq.it/it/opzione-benedetto-non-un-consiglio-ma-un-fatto

9 – «J’ai célébré des messes clandestines dans des granges pendant la période Covid. On se serait crus revenus aux périodes révolutionnaires. Aujourd’hui, le pouvoir n’est plus au service du peuple ni de Dieu, mais au service du mondialisme. C’est le combat entre le Christ Roi et le prince de ce monde — le diable. C’est le rôle de tout homme de prendre position pour le bien et de résister au mal». Cf. https://x.com/tocsin_media/status/2018717365500809725